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Post by RS Davis on Sept 16, 2004 11:54:39 GMT -5
I like guns. I just believe that they should have some controls placed on them. You have to have a license to prove you are capable of driving safely. You have to pass a vision test to show that you can see well enough to drive. I have to take skills tests every yr to prove that i am a competent nurse even though i have a license issued by the state of MO. I don't understand why so many people take issue with the idea of making sure that someone is reasonably safe to carry a gun. No criminal record, No history of violence. i agree that guns have many uses...self defense, hunting,target practice....but automatic assault weopons aren't used for anything but killing large numbers of people in the least amt of time. They are completely unnecesary except to cause mass suffering and death. For the life of me I can't understand why any of you (with the possible exception of zombiekiller who may need to destroy large groups of zombies) actually think you need one. I see gunshot victims every damn week end. Young kids with bullets lodged in their spinal cords who will never walk again. This isn't some abstract ideal. It's real live pain and suffering. I understand what you are saying and I empathise. It's hard to see these things day in and day out and not want to do anything about it, but people at your hospital also see people who wreck their bikes, fall off skateboards, get stabbed, etc. Shit happens. That's the way of the world, and no amount of legislation is going to stop that, |
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Post by RS Davis on Sept 16, 2004 12:11:05 GMT -5
And too, sometime the wacko nuts wanting a revolution try to take over the government, seeking power politics rather than force. And they would love the populace to be defenseless, sorta like China. True story. - Rick |
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Post by n2nsites on Sept 16, 2004 16:41:45 GMT -5
Okay.
Well, then I guess that answers my question....
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Post by RS Davis on Sept 16, 2004 16:47:09 GMT -5
Okay. Well, then I guess that answers my question.... Hahahaha,,,,  - Rick |
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Post by outgirl on Sept 16, 2004 17:47:13 GMT -5
Aye, but why does that matter? I never understood that. Let's be honest. Firerarms are weapons. All of them. They are all designed to do one thing and one thing only: make things dead, and unless it's a deer rifle, that thing is probably a human being. There is a difference between using a weopon in self defense and using it aggressively. You are right. We do plenty of damage to each other in this country with a good ole handgun. Do we really need a more efficient way to kill each other. It's like biological warfare. Why? Weren't nuclear weopons bad enough. Now we can spread ebola to destroy the world. Yippee. We can bring on another black plague. The fuckin dark ages really weren't so bad I'll bet. Let's just keep working on finding even more effiecient ways to kill each other goddamnit! The constitution won't mean shit if we're dead. The way I see it, the answer to that is not to outlaw the weapon. The bastards that fired those bullets doesn't care about the law, and will have his firearm regardless of the law. He'll just have to break the law to have it. For him, though, that's probably not a big deal. Laws, like locks, are for honest people. The answer to that is to enforce the laws against using the weapon in such a way and throwing those bastards in jail. Sometimes those bastards are 15 yr old kids. I believe in holding people accountable for their actions, including the actions of a 15 yr old. Yet society must bear some responsibility for this fuck up mess that we are handing over to them. Our jails are filled with kids who go up on drug charges and learn to be killers in prison. That's our bad. |
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Post by outgirl on Sept 16, 2004 17:53:44 GMT -5
I understand what you are saying and I empathise. It's hard to see these things day in and day out and not want to do anything about it, but people at your hospital also see people who wreck their bikes, fall off skateboards, get stabbed, etc. Shit happens. That's the way of the world, and no amount of legislation is going to stop that, Agreed, but walking on a playground and killing 30 preschoolers doesn't fall into the "shit happens" category. I'm talking about 2 things....basic controls, safety tests, history, criminal record..etc. and outlawing automatic assault rifles which make the world more unsafe for everyone. |
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Post by RS Davis on Sept 16, 2004 18:30:22 GMT -5
Agreed, but walking on a playground and killing 30 preschoolers doesn't fall into the "shit happens" category. I'm talking about 2 things....basic controls, safety tests, history, criminal record..etc. and outlawing automatic assault rifles which make the world more unsafe for everyone. I can see what you are saying, and it is very disturbing and tragic when something like that happens. But that happens very rarely. More people are killed by aspirin every year in America than by machine gun slaughter. Well, outside the military, I guess...  I may be sympathetic to the ex-con thing, but at the same time I am not sure. I kind of feel when you get out of prison, you've paid your debt to society and should get your civil rights back. It's like the voting thing. If you were arrested for something that should never have been illegal, and there is a candidate that wants to repeal the law, you should be able to vote for them. In theory, a rogue administration could have a bunch of dissidents arrested and then they can't vote the bastards out. I dunno, just brainstorming now... - Rick |
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Post by zombiekiller on Sept 16, 2004 23:43:08 GMT -5
Outgirl, While I joke about certain things, I agree with you about the horrible things that can occur when violence and firearms meet. I'm not one of the NRA androids that believe any attempt to regulate the availibility of firearms is a gun grab worthy of a full scale march on Washington. I know you've seen horrible things happen to people because of guns, and if I were in that position I would probably have much different views on gun control.
Personally though, I still believe that law abiding citizens of an age to think rationally and act responsibly should be able to own virtually any firearm for sport, recreation or defense, that when used correctly doesn't pose a threat to innocent bystanders (I don't think people should have rocket launchers to defend against muggers).
The main reason for this is that cliche' about criminals not obeying gun laws.
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Post by outgirl on Sept 17, 2004 0:35:40 GMT -5
I may be sympathetic to the ex-con thing, but at the same time I am not sure. I kind of feel when you get out of prison, you've paid your debt to society and should get your civil rights back. It's like the voting thing. If you were arrested for something that should never have been illegal, and there is a candidate that wants to repeal the law, you should be able to vote for them. In theory, a rogue administration could have a bunch of dissidents arrested and then they can't vote the bastards out. I dunno, just brainstorming now... - Rick I agree about voting rights but I think that if a person has been convicted of a violent crime he should lose the right to own a gun. He has already proven that he has a violent history. |
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Post by outgirl on Sept 17, 2004 0:37:08 GMT -5
Outgirl, While I joke about certain things, I agree with you about the horrible things that can occur when violence and firearms meet. I'm not one of the NRA androids that believe any attempt to regulate the availibility of firearms is a gun grab worthy of a full scale march on Washington. I know you've seen horrible things happen to people because of guns, and if I were in that position I would probably have much different views on gun control. Personally though, I still believe that law abiding citizens of an age to think rationally and act responsibly should be able to own virtually any firearm for sport, recreation or defense, that when used correctly doesn't pose a threat to innocent bystanders (I don't think people should have rocket launchers to defend against muggers). The main reason for this is that cliche' about criminals not obeying gun laws. ok zk |
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Post by RS Davis on Sept 17, 2004 2:43:26 GMT -5
I agree about voting rights but I think that if a person has been convicted of a violent crime he should lose the right to own a gun. He has already proven that he has a violent history. Yeah, I'm wishy-washy about this. I really have no strong retort and am leaning toward agreement. - Rick |
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pyro
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Post by pyro on Sept 17, 2004 14:48:22 GMT -5
"violent crime" is a pretty broad word. What if someone gets into an argument and throws a punch, bloodies a nose? Does that mean that 10 years down the line, he doesn't have the right to own a gun to hunt deer or for self defence, just because of an agrivated assault charge?
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Post by outgirl on Sept 17, 2004 15:57:58 GMT -5
"violent crime" is a pretty broad word. What if someone gets into an argument and throws a punch, bloodies a nose? Does that mean that 10 years down the line, he doesn't have the right to own a gun to hunt deer or for self defence, just because of an agrivated assault charge? Good point. Maybe I should change that to armed criminal assault. Obviously I'm not talking about that guy. I am talking about the guy who got 6-10 for assault with a deadly weopon and served 3. If you punch the dude thats fucking your girl, well ok....but if you pull out a knife or loaded gun that's something else. It means you couldn't control yourself. Why should you get a 2nd chance to become uncontrollably violent again. Violence permeates this society. We have to try to change things. I'm not really sure where to start. I know that it is about more than restricting certain weopons to certain people but we have to show the kids that violence is not the way to solve our problems. HA funny when you consider the current administrations rep...We are considered the world bullies. Not to sound like Michael Moore but we are way too focused on guns in this country and it shows in the statistics on violent crime in the US when compared to other countries. Maybe the evidence is in...that guns really do kill people. |
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Post by RS Davis on Sept 18, 2004 7:45:25 GMT -5
Violence permeates this society. We have to try to change things. I'm not really sure where to start. I know that it is about more than restricting certain weopons to certain people but we have to show the kids that violence is not the way to solve our problems. That's a good point. I can't remember where - either Sweden or Switzerland - there is an assault rifle in almost every home, and their violent crime rate is nil. So, I think you are absolutely correct - it's not so much the guns as it is our violent society. The question is - why is our American society so violent? - Rick |
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pyro
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Post by pyro on Sept 18, 2004 11:01:50 GMT -5
Again that's a pretty broad term, I see on the news all of the time how kids get mixed up in bad crowds and go rob a local 7-11. I don't believe, that once they put all of that stuff behind them, that they shouldn't be allowed to own a gun for the rest of their lives.
I believe that whether or not someone who commited a crime should be allowed to own a gun should be up to the court that tried the case, not the lawmakers.
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