so where the hell is er'body

[outgirl]

.....and who do you think won the debates?

[n2nsites]

I didn't watch. I am disgusted with the whole mess.

[outgirl]

n2nsites said:

I didn't watch. I am disgusted with the whole mess.

I'm sorry you're feeling so disgusted. I was like that but now I'm more frightened and angry than anything else. I thought I wasn't going to be able to watch it either, had to work...again, but Em taped it so I did see it this am. We were talking politics all night though and I was already pretty worked up. I was calling Cheney a war proffiteer all night, lol. I never really hated Cheney with such intensity until after reading whatever's book (which I've still not finished) Color me surprised but I really was impressed with Edwards. I did feel him. I really hadn't seen or heard much of him except during the convention. He impressed me this time. That's what has been a drag about this election. I feel this election is so important but there just aren't any real alternatives to Bush to feel passionate about. Edwards performance brought me a little closer. Even if I were willing to vote 3rd party this yr, there isn't anyone I'd like either. Kerry's the best man for the job even if he's not the man we want. So yeah...I know how you feel. I liked a lot of what I saw in Edwards though and was wishing that he were the dems candidate instead of Kerry. Later

[pyro]

The presidential "debates" were no more than campaign speaches, they only clashed over one thing; bilatteral talks with north Korea. The vice-presidential candidate debates were more interesting, but still just glorified Q&A sessions.

If you missed them you just missed 3 hours of credibility being attacked and campaign platforms being restated.

[RS Davis]

I only heard bits and pieces of the debates while I was delivering pizzas, but it seems like Bush had a slight edge in this one, especially toward the end. This is surprising because I thought Kerry would do better on the domestic issues. He just fell apart there while Bush seemed to be hitting his stride.

Kerry made a strong point that sticks out in my head, though. Bush had just gotten done saying that there would be no draft as long as he was president (I don't believe either candidate would reinstate the draft, even though the only people serious about bringing it back so far have been, like, six democrats), and Kerry responded that there was already a "backdoor draft," in that many servicepeople have not been allowed to go home after their tours were up. That is true.

SNL debate parody #1 - 10/02/04 - Devastating and accurate for both candidates...

JL – Good evening, I’m Jim Lehrer from the NewsHour at PBS

(holds for applause, gets none)

OK. Anyway, I welcome you to the first of the 2004 presidential debates, between George W. Bush, the Republican nominee, and Senator John Kerry, the Democratic nominee. Before we begin, let’s go over the ground rules, which have been carefully worked by representatives of the two campaigns. As moderator, I will ask all questions, including follow-ups. The candidates may not ask each other questions, interrupt one another, waive to each other, or make any unnecessary eye contact. In addition, the candidates have agreed not to leave their respective podiums to approach one another, and in order to enforce this rule, they have been fitted with special collars, which will keep them inside an invisible fence running 30 inches out from the center of their lecterns. And here I would like to acknowledge the generous assistance of the good folks at Smart Fence Inc. For forty years, S. Florida’s leader in world-class pet containment systems. Now let’s meet the candidates.

(candidates walk out, shake hands-Kerry WAY taller than Bush)

JL – Both candidates know the format. I will direct the first question to President Bush. And whatever the nature of the question, he will try to change the subject to 9/11. After a follow-up, I will ask Senator Kerry to respond. And the senator will remind the audience that he served in Vietnam. Following Se. Kerry’s rebuttal, there will be a brief disruption by demonstrators from ACT UP. And after order is restored, we will continue with a question for the senator, so lets begin. President Bush: the official position of your administration continues to be that Iraq will hold elections in January. Given the chaotic situation in that country, how will this be possible?

GB – Jim, our plan in Iraq has always been a three-phased plan. Phase one: invade the country, free the people, and remove a brutal dictator. No one will deny that phase one was a complete success.

JL – What about phase two?

GB – As we all know, there are those in Iraq who don’t want freedom for that country. The Saddam loyalists, the insurgents, the terrorists. In phase two, we smoke these folks out, by letting them think they’re winning, you know? Convincing them that we don’t know what we’re doing. In other words, lulling them into a false sense of security. And that’s where we are right now. Phase two. The lulling phase. And despite what our critics would tell you, it’s working. Terrorist confidence and morale has never been higher.

JL – And what happens in phase three?

GB – Jim, we’re still working on phase three. (whiny) You know, huh, and believe me…we’re working hard…’cause it’s, huh, it’s hard work…and we’re…working hard…every day…working evenings…ordering in…working hard together…now to answer your question, we don’t know all the details yet. But basically on phase three, we crush the terrorists and hold elections, so that the Iraqi people can choose their own destiny. Because I believe all people want freedom, don’t you?

JL – Absolutely, but when you say “crush the terrorists,” how exactly do you plan to do that?

GB – (whiny) Huh, by working hard! (long pause) Working Saturdays…

JL – So, your plan is to crush the terrorists by coming in on Saturdays?

GB – If that’s what it takes!

JL – Senator Kerry, your response.

JK – A silver star, a bronze star, and three purple hearts.

JL – Excuse me?

JK – Oh, I’m sorry, I though you were asking me what decorations I won in Vietnam.

JL – No, I wanted your reaction to the president’s plan.

JK – Jim, the fact is, this administration lied to the American people. We were told Iraq had weapons of mass destruction. That it was about to acquire these weapons. That it was closely involved with Al Qaeda. And after misleading us into a war, we now find out this president doesn’t even have a plan to win the peace. He doesn’t, but I do.

JL – And, what is your plan, senator?

JK – I will do what this president should’ve done in the first place. Which is enlist the help of the European allies, so the future Iraq is not solely America’s responsibility.

JL – But senator, given that many European governments were reluctant to come on board before the invasion, how would you convince them to step in now?

JK – Jim, I would sit down with the leaders or France, Germany and Russia, I would explain to them why we simply can’t afford to ignore Iraq. I would remind them that Iraq maintains vast stockpiles of weapons of mass destruction, That it’s actively seeking to acquire nuclear weapons. And that’s closely allied with Al Qaeda and almost certainly behind 9/11.

JL – But just a few minutes ago didn’t you say that none of that was true?
JK – I changed my mind.

JL – Mr. President, continuing with Sen. Kerry’s point, supposed we fail to sop the insurgency in Iraq, do you have a contingency plan to restore stability in the country?

GB – (Whiny) Of course we do, Jim…we work hard…we came up with a contingency plan, you know? That’s our job! And it’s hard work, thinking of a plan, you know? Let along TWO plans, you know? A regular plan AND a contingency plan…lotta long hours….reading documents and…sitting in meetings…I came in on Sunday once!

JL – Could you describe the contingency plan?

GB – Uh, you know, uh…let me first say I don’t believe this contingency plan will be necessary because, huh, you know, the fact is we’re, we’re winning! But, you know, if by some chance it should prove impossible to restore stability in time for elections the backup plan would be to replace Mr. Allawi with a more forceful, authoritarian leader…someone who can bring order to Iraq until it’s ready for democracy.

JL – And that leader would be?

GB – (Whiny) Saddam Hussein…?

JL – So, you’re considering restoring Saddam Hussein to power?

GB – Uh, that’s the backup plan, you know? Now was that our first choice? Of course not! You know? That’s why it’s just a backup! Although I will say that if you’re looking for a strong, decisive leader, you can do a lot worse than Saddam Hussein. He ran the country for 30 years so he’s got the experience, you know, there’d be no on-the-job training with Saddam Hussein, you know, first day he’d hit the ground running, you know…plus, you know, he…he works hard! Puts in the long hours…eats at his desk…comes in weekends…and unlike my opponent, once Saddam Hussein takes a position, he sticks to it. He doesn’t shift in the wind.

JL – Senator, the president appears to be leveling a charge he frequently repeats against you, that you’re a flip-flopper. How do you respond?

JK – My opponent would like you to believe that I’ve changed my position on the war. The fact is I have one position, and one position only. Was Saddam a threat? Yes. I’ve said so since day one. What his regime a danger to the security of the U.S.? Of course not. Did he deserve to be removed? You bet. Was it the right action to remove him from power? No way. Was he in possession of weapons of mass destruction? Absolutely. Did he possess these weapons? No, he did not. And that has always been my position.

JL – President Bush, your response.

GB – You know, hehe, there he goes again, Jim. You know, huh, you know…I don’t know how you can win a war when you keep saying “wrong war, wrong place, wrong time.”

JL – I don’t think he said that.

GB – I thought I heard him say that.

JL – No sir, he did not. He said plenty of nonsensical things any one of which you could very easily refute, but just now he did not say anything close to “wrong war, wrong place, wrong time.”

(Bush looks to Kerry, puzzled)

JL – With that, this debate comes to a close. Each candidate will now make a brief closing statement. Sen. Kerry?

JK – You know, this president likes to talk about how I called this war the wrong war, wrong place, wrong time. Then a few days later, how I said that anyone who doesn’t think the world is a safer place without Saddam Hussein is not fit to be commander-in-chief. But what he doesn’t tell you is that when I denounced the war in Iraq, I was speaking to an anti-war group. And when I endorsed the war, I was addressing a pro-war delegation from the UGA. The fact of the matter is I have consistently supported the war in front of pro-war audiences, and condemned it when speaking to groups that opposed it. That is not flip-flopping, that is pandering, and Americans deserve a president who knows the difference. Thank you.

JL – President Bush.

GB – September 11 changed how American must look at the world. I wake up every day, and work hard…thinking about how to protect America. That’s my job…and it’s hard…it’s hard work…frankly I don’t know why my opponent even wants this job. ‘Cause it’s hard! Lotta people…working at meetings…it’s hard work and…(buzzer).

JL – And with that tonight’s debate comes to a close. Thank you, and live from New York, it’s Saturday Night.

[whatever]

n2nsites said:

I didn't watch. I am disgusted with the whole mess.

I feel like I'm just about where you are N2. I just can't say any more. I see Bush, and all I see is a dishonest man, I can't see past that, and I'm too angry over the war, and the state of our nation.

I'm glad some people aren't as worried as I am, but, I'm not sure they're right.