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Post by outgirl on Jun 28, 2004 9:58:17 GMT -5
So we will have the opportunity to vote on Missouri's marriage amendment on Aug 3rd. I can't imagine that this wouldn't pass here or in any of the bible belt states. Think we have a chance? They say a Nov. vote favors conservatives and an early vote favors us. Don't really get why that's true. Not sure I believe it. What do you think our chances of defeating this are?
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Post by n2nsites on Jun 28, 2004 10:28:48 GMT -5
In reality? zero. 39 states have passed "Defense of Mariage" Acts of their own all ready and let's face it, Missouri isn't a real leader when it comes to tough issues.....and you only need 38.....
When it comes to religious issues, you just can't change people's minds. Many people resort to "the bible says" and just stop there without using their own brains to think it through or understand why that is an infringement to those of us who don't take "the bible says" as a valid reason.
I hate to say this, but I hope you will understand text as well as a RL conversation, but my problem is more that I want the constitution as "religion free" as possible, as opposed to the human rights aspect. Don't misunderstand - the rights issue is right there almost equal. But if I personally had to rate it, the religion aspect gets first place. Then again, this is an amendment that takes rights away....every other one added rights. Well, except prohibition. And gee that turned out well. But I think the real reason this amendment gains so much support is because of the religious aspect and the people who support really do think they are doing something morally right. It is twisted. And it is difficult to argue with someone who believes totally that they are doing God's work in good faith. The key for me is to try and get them to understand why I don't want them dictating my morality for me. After all, even God granted free will.
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Post by outgirl on Jun 29, 2004 4:06:08 GMT -5
I am so sick of Christians. I'm sorry if I am offending anyone but I am so sick of being told that I'm not right I could puke.
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Post by dr snootch on Jun 29, 2004 8:28:33 GMT -5
I am so sick of Christians. I'm sorry if I am offending anyone but I am so sick of being told that I'm not right I could puke. I'm a Christian, but I'm not offended. Nor do I think you're wrong. I think two people who really love each other with everything is all the prerequisite necessary for a God-condoned marriage. Love is the all-important aspect. |
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Post by n2nsites on Jun 29, 2004 10:02:08 GMT -5
The thing is there are probably enough people who feel as we do that the amendment could be stopped. But...those with religion have affiliations, social situations etc. where they can convince people they need to vote "for a good cause". They have the resources and power to sway the vote.
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Post by RS Davis on Jun 29, 2004 14:51:14 GMT -5
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Post by outgirl on Jun 29, 2004 14:52:51 GMT -5
The thing is there are probably enough people who feel as we do that the amendment could be stopped. But...those with religion have affiliations, social situations etc. where they can convince people they need to vote "for a good cause". They have the resources and power to sway the vote. What do we do then? I get requests for donations from every gay and civil rights organization that there is. Used to be a member of HRC but not since I became single. Get so tired of being asked for money but is that what is needed? I always thought that being out in the world was what would change things and I know it has changed public perceptions, but in the end does it come down to having the money and resourses to fight the conservative right and their seemingly vast resourses? Are we making too big a deal about the marriage thing? Should we be working towards federally recognized civil unions which is probably more realistic and would provide the same benefits? |
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Post by RS Davis on Jun 29, 2004 15:01:19 GMT -5
What do we do then? I get requests for donations from every gay and civil rights organization that there is. Used to be a member of HRC but not since I became single. Get so tired of being asked for money but is that what is needed? I always thought that being out in the world was what would change things and I know it has changed public perceptions, but in the end does it come down to having the money and resourses to fight the conservative right and their seemingly vast resourses? Are we making too big a deal about the marriage thing? Should we be working towards federally recognized civil unions which is probably more realistic and would provide the same benefits? I think being out and in the world is the best thing, too. Public perception drives public policy, and I think public perception is swinging more and more toward acceptance, not just toleration. I think this is why we see all these measures trying to stop the shifting of our culture. As to the other, I am for civil unions...for all. The government has no right to define and uphold the sanctity of marriage. That is between each individual and their God/Goddess/Great Spirit/Vishnu/Ayn Rand... - Rick |
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