Winning the hard way

[Armed Citizen]

Winning the hard way
10/15/2003

OPPONENTS CAN'T BE FAULTED for trying to get the state's concealed-gun law off the books the easy way, through the actions of a friendly court. But the best way to win may be the hard way: in the democratic arena.

Liberals sometimes get lazy, relying on the courts instead of getting their hands dirty with democracy.

Take the misguided attempt to stop the California recall. Abortion is another example. While supporters of the abortion right take refuge in the courts, abortion foes chalk up victories in legislatures.

This editorial page fervently opposes the new concealed-gun law, which effectively lets people carry concealed guns just about everywhere. But just because a law is unwise doesn't make it unconstitutional.

St. Louis Circuit Judge Steven Ohmer, who issued a preliminary injunction suspending the law last Friday, said that the state constitution is so clear that a 10-year-old would understand that it bans concealed guns. The adults on the Missouri Supreme Court might find the issue a little more complex.

The state constitution guarantees citizens the right to bear arms, but states that "this shall not justify the wearing of concealed weapons." However, just because the state constitution doesn't grant the power to carry a concealed weapon doesn't mean that the Legislature can't grant that power.

The wording about concealed guns entered the constitution in 1875 during the violent era of Reconstruction, when night riders terrorized freed slaves, and Jesse James and his gang marauded the state. A St. Louis judge, Thomas Gantt, explained its purpose. He said the practice of wearing concealed guns was "fraught with the most incalculable evil." But then he added that the words did not prevent people from putting a "pistol in the pocket or a bowie knife under the belt."

The most logical explanation is that the Legislature wanted to ensure the constitutionality of a concealed-gun law it had passed the year before to deal with the James gang. Judge Gantt seemed to say exactly that when he said the wording was needed because another state's concealed-gun law had been thrown out.

Attorney General Jay Nixon points out that no one ever has argued that it was unconstitutional to allow police and prison guards to carry concealed guns. Nor did gun opponents or the governor bring up the provision during the legislative debate.

Three gun opponents who posted a $250,000 appeal bond - attorney Burt Newman, St. Louis Alderman Lyda Krewson and Million Mom March leader Jeanne Kirkton - have shown admirable ardor. Ms. Krewson, who saw her husband shot to death in 1995, even mortgaged her house. If they lose, gun foes will need that passion to pass an initiative to change the constitution and ban concealed guns once and for all.


Nope - it's one of the most restrictive of the 'shall issue' laws, but, that's small potatoes here.

Well - Red Star - looks like they don't wish to debate any longer.
It's your turn to go out and do the democracy thingy and change the Constitution of Missouri.

Most that have read some of my posted stuff know I don't care for attorney types. They do have their place - inside the jailhouse mostly.

Lyda Krewson looking to be re-elected ? A little more name recognition perhaps ? As far as I can tell - she hasn't done diddle yet !!! Perhaps, Ms. Krewson should talk with the family from Colorado or the other family members of those that have been victimized during this drawn out process. By a glitch in the law, we in Missouri elected a dead man as Governor and his wife takes the job ? Then, Lyda climbs on the husbands' death to get elected as an Alderman; damn only in America could such things happen.

Jeanne Kirkton would do better to find the 'dead beat dads' that have left their responsibilities ..... if ya can't feed 'em - don't breed 'em. Punish these guys and stop yelling about citizens that want to protect their own families from predators !! (it could be the very same guys)

From the editorial I see that the wording was to stop freed slaves and the James gang from concealed weapons ?

The wording about concealed guns entered the constitution in 1875 during the violent era of Reconstruction, when night riders terrorized freed slaves, and Jesse James and his gang marauded the state.

We all know how that turned out. We've a landmark tourist attraction dedication to the James Gang doing what they could to 'right a wrong' by the Railroad.

I only hope that Judge Ohmer can read and comprehend this editorial and stop playing games with the safety of the citizenry of Missouri.

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[Armed Citizen]

Pardon me while I vent a little bit:

Concealed carry
11/08/2003

WHAT HAPPENED: A judge made permanent his preliminary order that blocked the concealed carry law from taking effect.

WHAT CHANGES: Nothing. The law has never taken effect, so no one has been issued a permit to carry a concealed weapon.

WHAT'S NEXT: The Missouri Supreme Court will set a briefing schedule, receive briefs, hear oral arguments and eventually issue a ruling. There is no timetable for when that will happen.

Don't ya just love the way they manage to print nothing about nothing new to report ? Nope - police are no longer allowed to carry concealed weapons is nothing to report or draw attention. Next time you see anyone around the Police Station with a gun under his belt - Call the State Highway Patrol and report that illegal activity.

Then we have the other side of the coin
Concealed guns and democracy
09/17/2003

Even though I'm an ardent supporter of the right to carry a concealed weapon, it was wrong for the state Legislature to pass legislation allowing citizens the right to carry a weapon. Three years ago, the citizens defeated a measure to carry a concealed weapon at the polls. As a firm believer in the democratic process, I think the majority should rule.

Be that as it may, people are overreacting when they say it is going to be like the wild West. First, only law-abiding citizens will be given a permit to carry a gun, and I seriously doubt they will do anything irresponsible or illegal to jeopardize their freedom.

Second, while there may be an increase in the number of handguns sold, I doubt that we'll see people lined up at the doors waiting to buy one. The fact is, most people who already own a firearm will be the people who apply for a permit, and they have not done anything illegal yet, so why should that change?

I have lived in states that allow a person the right to carry a concealed weapon and, quite frankly, I never saw one person carrying a gun, much less brandish it in the open. In every situation when a person used a weapon in self-defense, it was ruled justifiable.

Statistics also show that there was neither an increase nor decrease in serious crime, and neither was there a noticeable increase nor decrease in accidental shootings. So, for all of the people who think we are going to be living in the wild West again, use some common sense.

Doesn't that just make you feel all warm and fuzzy ?


Perhaps this will warm your blood a little:
Vigilante justice? Missourians must have a death wish
By Sylvester Brown Jr., 09/30/2003

On Oct. 11, Missourians can legally pack heat thanks to the Republican-controlled Legislature.

The concealed-carry bill should be renamed after the late actor Charles Bronson. The sentiment that fuels the law follows the script of Bronson's famous " Death Wish" films: It's nothing more than a feel-safe, vigilante bill.

The logic goes like this: I'll get a gun because the criminals have guns. If they think I have a gun, they won't use their gun. If they pull a gun, I'll pull out my bigger gun. . . . And so on.

In 1974's " Death Wish," Bronson's character sought to avenge the rape of his daughter and his wife's murder. In subsequent films, the once-docile architect becomes a vigilante bent on protecting the public from urban terrorists. But what motivates the Missourians who can now carry guns in cars, to the movies, at restaurants and small sporting events? Heck, if an official says it's OK, they can even carry guns into child-care centers, schools and churches.

How did we get back to this Old West mentality? Didn't voters defeat a concealed-handgun measure in 1999?

This year, Republican lawmakers overwhelmingly approved a concealed-weapons bill. Legislators from the mean streets of Crestwood, St. Charles, Festus, Ballwin, Creve Coeur, Chesterfield, Webster Groves and other areas pushed the legislation through the House. The governor vetoed the bill in July.

Rep. Larry Crawford, R-California, sponsored the bill. He argued that it would serve as a deterrent to crime and help people protect themselves. Missouricarry.com, a pro-gun advocacy Web site, backs Crawford's claim. The organization's Web site presents figures showing how the number of murders, rapes and aggravated assaults drop due to concealed-carry laws in other states.

Those opposed to concealed-carry have statistics, too. Their numbers indicate more people die as a result of such laws. Both claims are likely exaggerated, but I'll stick with the anti-gun version. More guns mean more people will shoot them. Period.

Holden's veto drew the wrath of many Missourians. "Gov. Bob Holden has put thieves, thugs, rapists and murderers on notice that the people of Missouri are easy prey," an angry reader wrote to the Post-Dispatch.

The veto was overridden, and the concealed-carry bill became law. So, as of Oct. 11, anyone 23 and over can apply for a permit to carry a handgun. Of course, the person must submit to a background check and go through an eight-hour gun course. But hey, after that, it's gun-totin' time!

"The streets of Missouri just became safer for everyone, except criminals," declared the National Rifle Association in a news release.

I don't feel safe, because guns give their owners a false sense of power.

A fistfight can easily become a shootout if one or both combatants have guns. A handgun within arm's reach is a tempting tool to scare the guy that just cut you off in traffic. What happens if that person has a gun also? It's difficult enough dealing with drunken drivers. Now we have to deal with drunken, armed drivers?

The real problem lies in the "concealed" part of the legislation. No one knows who's carrying a gun. Assumptions will be made, and people will be shot based on those assumptions.

Many times police quickly draw their weapons because they believe people are armed. Imagine their fear now that motorists have "the right" to carry guns in their cars.

A recent editorial in this paper urged voters to organize now to overturn the concealed-weapons law. That's good advice. Crime and violence are serious issues. Though no one wants to be a victim, becoming a vigilante for the state is hardly a solution. That might have worked in Bronson's films, but in real life, it's a death wish.

Followed by this happy - cuddly attempt
Backers of concealed guns are armed with dedication to cause
By Sylvester Brown Jr.
10/28/2003

Does the Post-Dispatch really think we all have no memory of the 'attacks' when the 1999 attempt was made to have conceal carry voted for in this State ? LTC did win in 104 counties of the 114 !! Where is the research department's facts and figures of just how many have died at the hands of criminals since 1999 ? Stories have been deleted, letters to the editor removed, facts erased from their own web source and they decry that the NRA web facts aren't really true ? Now proof of the voter fraud and phone messages from Hillary are gone from the web server !! Come on now - support this newspaper and forget all about the 'war' they declared upon the law abiding citizens of St. Louis and the State. I'll not purchase this newspaper again until they learn that equal rights doesn't mean special rights for a few 'politically correct' bleeding hearts that want to promote welfare and lessen the working class. And I don't want to hear that 'old story' that the advertiser doesn't like this story or that story - journalism requires facts - not fiction created by the paid staff, such as the likes of Sly Brown Jr.

Ole' Joe Pulitzer would roll over and at the Post-Dispatch of today. Let Jerry Berger run the paper for a while - at least he knows how to dig out a whole story from only a simple phone call.

from the American Heritage Dictionary
journalism: The style of writing characteristic of material in newspapers and magazines, consisting of direct presentation of facts or occurrences with little attempt at analysis or interpretation.

[Armed Citizen]

The road to hell
11/12/2003

MISSOURI'S NEW concealed-weapons law is an abomination. People can carry concealed guns into schools, day care centers, and churches. It would be wonderful if the law were unconstitutional, as Judge Steven R. Ohmer says it is. But it's hard to read the Missouri Constitution that way without a lot of wishful thinking.

Judge Ohmer issued a 23-page opinion making his injunction against the law permanent. His opinion is singularly unpersuasive. The state Bill of Rights guarantees the right of every person to bear arms, and goes on to say, "but this shall not justify the wearing of concealed weapons." Judge Ohmer said those words took away the power of the Legislature to allow citizens to carry concealed weapons. But the language seems to say that "this" - the constitutional right to bear arms - does not grant citizens the right to carry concealed weapons. Saying that the state constitution doesn't grant the right doesn't mean the Legislature can't. That latter interpretation makes sense in light of the way constitutions are written and the historical context of this provision.

For one thing, the Bill of Rights is a place to grant citizens rights, not take them away, as Judge Ohmer's interpretation would do. More important, history suggests that the Legislature adopted the 1875 provision to ensure the constitutionality of a concealed-weapons law it had passed the year before. St. Louis Judge Thomas T. Gantt, who explained the provision's purpose, said the language was needed because a court in another state had ruled that the right to bear arms prohibited the legislature from passing a law against concealed weapons.

Judge Gantt said wearing concealed guns was "fraught with the most incalculable evil." But he went on to say that the committee that wrote the wording "gave no sanction to the idea . . . that the right to bear arms shall not include the right to carry a pistol in the pocket or a bowie knife under the belt." Judge Ohmer points to Judge Gantt's double-negative statement as clear proof that the intent was "to not justify the wearing of concealed weapons." The words say quite the opposite - that hidden knives and guns are allowed.

If the constitution meant what Judge Ohmer says it means, a century of laws that permit police and prison guards to carry concealed weapons would be unconstitutional. But no one ever argued that. Nor did gun opponents or Gov. Bob Holden suggest the law was unconstitutional during legislative debate - even though the governor revised history last week by saying he had vetoed the bill because it was unconstitutional.

Oliver Wendell Holmes once stressed the importance of courts deferring to the judgment of legislatures: "If my fellow citizens want to go to Hell, I will help them," he said. "It's my job." The concealed-weapons bill may be a path to hell, but nothing in the constitution stands in the way.

The Post-Dispatch seems to be awake:

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Good, now strip the concealed firearms from all the Police or let's get on with life and arm ALL the law-abiding citizenry of this State.

This topic started a 13 page debate

[Armed Citizen]

Woman has 116 unpaid parking tickets in city
By DOUG MOORE, Post-Dispatch, 10/05/2003

However, when a gun issue is justifiable. Not a single line or mention could be found in the Post-Dispatch. Why is this happening Dales ? There surely would have been a HUGE article had there been a customer or person outside the store hit by a stray bullet.

A man attempting to rob a St. Louis liquor store was shot and killed Friday afternoon, when the store owner grabbed a gun and started shooting.

It happened at Larry's Last Stop Liquor store, located in the 82-hundred block of Alabama Street. Police say two men walked into the store, one in the front door and the other through a back exit. One of the men pulled out a handgun and threatened a customer.

Let some person of influence be involved and they get a print up by Tim O'Neil ? (3 seperate days) And guess what ? The 'thugs' manage to get caught and found with "a bb pistol that looks like a semi-automatic pistol." - How shocking !!!

Three are charged in Clayton home invasion
By TIM O'NEIL, Post-Dispatch, 10/01/2003

more .. .. ..

The victim, who was uninjured, is Karen Zorensky, whose husband is Mark Zorensky, president of Hycel Properties and developer of the St. Louis Galleria. Byrne said police believe her attackers chose her at random and followed her home.

But this lady only gets a tag line in 'neighborhoods' by a Suburban Journals writer ?
Maryland Heights resident stabbed near apartment
Kate Miller, Of the Suburban Journals West County Journal, updated: 09/30/2003 03:25 PM
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A woman is wanted for questioning after a Maryland Heights woman was stabbed in a robbery that occurred Sept. 11 near the victim's home.
Lt. Bill Carson of the Maryland Heights Police Department said the 23-year old victim had parked her car and was heading to her apartment near the intersection of Page Avenue and Bennington Place about 10:35 p.m. when she was attacked by two suspects.

The suspects approached the victim from behind, pulled her to the ground and stabbed her in the face and arm. The suspects then stole her purse and fled on foot, Carson said.

"The victim spent one night in the hospital," Carson said. "The wound to her face required 50 or 60 stitches and will likely include work with a plastic surgeon."

Save us from this unequaled attention.

Then to top it off with a cherry, I find this charming story. (With such impartial reporting ?)
Vigilante justice? Missourians must have a death wish

(see above)

A recent editorial in this paper urged voters to organize now to overturn the concealed-weapons law. That's good advice. Crime and violence are serious issues. Though no one wants to be a victim, becoming a vigilante for the state is hardly a solution. That might have worked in Bronson's films, but in real life, it's a death wish.

comments that were printed about Vigilante justice?

Commentary: Beer, guns, ammo 10/05/2003

comments that were printed about Politics mixed with beer and guns

Now if that isn't a load of manure straight from the cow pasture, I don't know what else it could be called. This guy, Sylvester Brown, has never been on the streets of St. Louis except to drive past the boarded up buildings near the office of the Post-Dispatch. Have him meet with Bill McC in the smoking room and let Bill tell him of the fun spots on the South Side. (or what used to be fun) Or he can meet with me down on Jefferson & Broadway at midnite and we can walk the neighborhood together. I'll even let him pick which District he would care to meander / travel ?

At least Horrigan shows a sense of humor.
Now that we can carry guns, who can we shoot?
By Kevin Horrigan, 09/21/2003

Anyone whose car flunked an emissions control test probably has a suggestion.

The Missouri Legislature has finally made it possible for Missourians to pack heat, an effort driven by those who live in parts of the state where cow tipping is the most serious crime problem.

more .. .. ..


This whole topic has vanished - oh well - it's here now.

[Armed Citizen]

More later - I have to get it in gear and toddle off to work.