Questions

[n2nsites]

Hey Rick et al
Could you direct me to information on such issues as
Federal Defense, Health Care/Insurance, and environment protection from the Libertarian perspective? Thanks.

[RS Davis]

Here are some good places to start. If you have any other questions, let me know:

Federal Defense

Libertarian foreign policy: Defending America (not the world)

Health Care/Insurance

Health Care & Health Costs

Environmental Protection

The Pollution Solution: Stopping the environment's worst enemy

Hope this helps!

- Rick

[n2nsites]

All very good - thank you.

So here's my dilemna. A lot of this sounds pretty extremist to a middle of the roader, eh? But I will focus on the first things that come to my mind.
1. I don't trust corporate America. At all. So I like the FDA, EPA and OSHA checking up on the Big Boys. I think they need major overhauls for sure. But I am leery of saying "Oh we don't need them".
2. I have no faith in consumers. I know. Sticking myself out there for a swift kick. But as I read in one article, to paraphrase, "we sell ourselves out for a Big Mac". Thinking that consumers would regulate big business is beyond my capacity - I have been known to buy something I shouldn't because it was cheaper, it was convenient, it was there. Whatever the reason, I ignored my principles. I don't think I am alone. Hell, I drive an SUV. Yep I am one of those. Oh and I smoke. Yep one of those too.
3. As a former military brat.....I have strong opinions on military defense and I think limiting the defense to our borders is short sighted. And I don't understand this:

We recommend the repeal of the Uniform Code of Military Justice and the recognition and equal protection of the rights of armed forces members. This will thereby promote morale, dignity, and a sense of justice within the military.

or this:

We call for the withdrawal of all American military personnel stationed abroad, including the countries of NATO Europe, Japan, the Philippines, Central America and South Korea. There is no current or foreseeable risk of any conventional military attack on the American people, particularly from long distances. We call for the withdrawal of the U.S. from commitments to engage in war on behalf of other governments and for abandonment of doctrines supporting military intervention such as the Monroe Doctrine.

I think that is naive.
4. When it comes to health care, I tend to be more socialist. (more kicks in the butt) I have no problem eliminating social relief programs and deregulating aspects of the health care industry. But some of the other stuff is beyond me.
5. Environment - ah.

Obviously, owners make better environmental guardians than renters. If the government sold its acreage to private ranchers, the new owners would make sure that they grazed the land sustainably to maximize profit and yield.

See, here I have to trust business again. Help me out with that one.
And I don't know about this:

We advocate the establishment of an efficient and just system of private water rights, applied to all bodies of water, surface and underground. Such a system should be built upon a doctrine of first claim and use. The allocation of water should be governed by unrestricted competition and unregulated prices. All government restrictions upon private use or voluntary transfer of water rights or similar despotic controls can only aggravate the misallocation of water.

That sounds scary to me.
So I am really trying to learn. I hope you guys can help me out here. I have preformed notions, as do we all, and I am trying to work through the kinks. I have always had a "live and let live" or "to each his own" philosophy, I want the fucking government to back off. But I don't feel the full fledged "Libertarian" love yet.

[outgirl]

n2nsites said:

All very good - thank you.

So here's my dilemna. A lot of this sounds pretty extremist to a middle of the roader, eh? But I will focus on the first things that come to my mind.
1. I don't trust corporate America. At all. So I like the FDA, EPA and OSHA checking up on the Big Boys. I think they need major overhauls for sure. But I am leery of saying "Oh we don't need them".
2. I have no faith in consumers. I know. Sticking myself out there for a swift kick. But as I read in one article, to paraphrase, "we sell ourselves out for a Big Mac". Thinking that consumers would regulate big business is beyond my capacity - I have been known to buy something I shouldn't because it was cheaper, it was convenient, it was there. Whatever the reason, I ignored my principles. I don't think I am alone. Hell, I drive an SUV. Yep I am one of those. Oh and I smoke. Yep one of those too.
3. As a former military brat.....I have strong opinions on military defense and I think limiting the defense to our borders is short sighted. And I don't understand this:
or this:
I think that is naive.
4. When it comes to health care, I tend to be more socialist. (more kicks in the butt) I have no problem eliminating social relief programs and deregulating aspects of the health care industry. But some of the other stuff is beyond me.
5. Environment - ah.
See, here I have to trust business again. Help me out with that one.
And I don't know about this:
That sounds scary to me.
So I am really trying to learn. I hope you guys can help me out here. I have preformed notions, as do we all, and I am trying to work through the kinks. I have always had a "live and let live" or "to each his own" philosophy, I want the fucking government to back off. But I don't feel the full fledged "Libertarian" love yet.

I agree with everything that you said. I don't think you need any help here at all. A couple of weeks ago I had to supply my pool contractor with a copy of my plot survey. Well, I haven't seen that since purchasing the home 10 yrs ago. My ex has it. I absolutely wanted to die before calling her for anything, especially something that might require telling her my business. So I decided to go try and get a copy from the county courthouse. I was planning to have to wait in line and suffer trying to explain what I wanted to several people. Instead I just walked in, asked infor. where to get a plat survey, took the elevator up to 3 and walked up and purchased a copy for $2.50. The whole thing took about 3 minutes. That night I read a freedomphile about doing away with taxes, and I just kept thinking that I was glad to have that woman working in the gov't bldg to help me. I want my air and water tested. And I absolutely don't trust big business to regulate themselves. I hate those greedy corporate bastards.

[RS Davis]

n2nsites said:

As a former military brat.....I have strong opinions on military defense and I think limiting the defense to our borders is short sighted. And I don't understand this:

We recommend the repeal of the Uniform Code of Military Justice and the recognition and equal protection of the rights of armed forces members. This will thereby promote morale, dignity, and a sense of justice within the military.

or this:

We call for the withdrawal of all American military personnel stationed abroad, including the countries of NATO Europe, Japan, the Philippines, Central America and South Korea. There is no current or foreseeable risk of any conventional military attack on the American people, particularly from long distances. We call for the withdrawal of the U.S. from commitments to engage in war on behalf of other governments and for abandonment of doctrines supporting military intervention such as the Monroe Doctrine.

I think that is naive.

George Washington and Thomas Jefferson were big proponents of the idea of peaceful trade with all, entangling alliances with none. I think their axiom works out, taking a brief glance at the last 100 years of global intervention.

Let's start at WWI. If we and many of the other countries had refused to get involved with that conflict, it would have been confined to a local problem. But we got involved and so did the world. A result of this war and its treaties was a fostering resentment by the German people that laid the groundwork for Hitler's rise to power, the Holocost, and further lossof American lives in WWII.

War begets war begets war. Our involvement in those wars created more enemies and more problems, including the rise of Communism and our subsequent wars (Korea and Vietnam) trying to quell that threat.

And if we hadn't been tinkering around with the Middle East after the post-WWII - ahem - relocation of Jews to Israel, we wouldn't have a war in Iraq, a War on Terra, or 3000 peaceful American citizens dead.

As to the other, I think they just meant that as free individuals, we should retain our autonomy and sovriegnty even in the military.

n2nsites said:

5. Environment - ah.

Obviously, owners make better environmental guardians than renters. If the government sold its acreage to private ranchers, the new owners would make sure that they grazed the land sustainably to maximize profit and yield.

See, here I have to trust business again. Help me out with that one. I don't trust corporate America. At all. So I like the FDA, EPA and OSHA checking up on the Big Boys. I think they need major overhauls for sure. But I am leery of saying "Oh we don't need them".

It's not that we are asking you to trust business, per se. We don't trust big business any more than the next person. What we do trust, on the other hand, is the ironclad axiom that each individual will always do what he believes to be in his best interest.

Let me give you a couple of examples. In Africa, hunters were lured by the ivory trade to kill elephants. A fear of dwindling populations there caused governments to ban elephant hunting. What happened then was that the huge created black market prices for ivory coupled with the new illicit nature of elephant hunting caused poachers to kill elephants, cut their tusks off, and leave their rotting carcasses on the plains in alarming numbers.

Somewhere in the American west, there is a mountain range inhabited by a certain type of Elk. The government bought that land and closed it off to hunting those Elk. So bring on the poachers and dwindling populations of Elk.

The same uniquely clear-headed approach was used in solving both of these problems. The governments sold large portions of those areas to private interests, who maintained the population and allowed controlled hunting of elephant and elk. As a result, the populations of both animals have rebounded.

It's simple, really. What do we eat the most in America? Beef. And what animal do we have the most of in America? Cows. When we depend on something like that, our own self-interest precludes us from squandering it.

A similar thing can be seen in the harvesting of trees. We have more trees in America now than we did 100 years ago, and the world has about the same as it did 50 years ago. That number is growing. The reason this has happened is because wise businessmen realized having "tree farms," where they could grow and harvest their own stocks, was a lot more efficient than moving big equipment and manpower all around the world looking for trees to cut down.

Our own government, in fact, is our worst polluter. A great first step would be for the government to auction off all that land those decommissioned military bases and public forests to private interests and groups like The Nature Conservancy. That will solve a lot of our environmental and fiscal problems in one fell swoop.

n2nsites said:

2. I have no faith in consumers. I know. Sticking myself out there for a swift kick. But as I read in one article, to paraphrase, "we sell ourselves out for a Big Mac". Thinking that consumers would regulate big business is beyond my capacity - I have been known to buy something I shouldn't because it was cheaper, it was convenient, it was there. Whatever the reason, I ignored my principles. I don't think I am alone. Hell, I drive an SUV. Yep I am one of those. Oh and I smoke. Yep one of those too.

We, the consumers and citizens of the United States, are the very ones these laws are supposed to protect. It's not that I trust the average consumer to make the decisions I think they should make, but I respect their right to make their own decisions with their own money.

n2nsites said:

4. When it comes to health care, I tend to be more socialist. (more kicks in the butt) I have no problem eliminating social relief programs and deregulating aspects of the health care industry. But some of the other stuff is beyond me.

I think it was PJ O'Rourke who said, "If you think healthcare is expensive now, just wait until it is free." If you'd like to read more about the horors of Socialized Medicine, read Dr. Jane Orient's book, Your Doctor is Not In, where she writes about Canada's experiment with Socialism:

"The average number of weeks waiting for hand surgery was 12.4; for hysterectomy, 16.3; for colonoscopy (a diagnostic procedure that might find a cancer), 6.2; for hernia repair, 24.6; for cholecystectomy (gallbladder removal), 31.7; coronary artery bypass, 23.7; other open heart surgery, 21.4; prostatectomy (which relieves difficulty in urination and often finds treatable cancer), 30.9; cytoscopy (often done to diagnose cancer), 23.6."

There are also a few articles on Socialized Medicine in the Economics section of the forums.

I hope I helped clear up our positions on the issues for you. If you have any further questions, let me know!

- Rick

[n2nsites]

RD - I understand the philosophy. I think I have just read too many gloom/doom scenarios. Or maybe its the conspiracy ones....anyway. Food for thought. I am getting it together for a proper analysis!

[RS Davis]

n2nsites said:

RD - I understand the philosophy. I think I have just read too many gloom/doom scenarios. Or maybe its the conspiracy ones....anyway. Food for thought. I am getting it together for a proper analysis!

If you'd like some more places to look, check out my Freedom Files Reading List.

- Rick