For Whatever

[n2nsites]

Hey girlfriend.

You'd be proud. I know you don't do the STL site any more....

but check me out.

forums.stltoday.com/viewtopic.php?t=264055&start=60
Go to the end of the page....

[RS Davis]

That was fucking awesome.

[n2nsites]

Golly, thanks Rick!

I tend to hyperfocus when I perceive a blow off......

That and these stupid laws really piss me off.

[RS Davis]

Agreed.

[whatever]

N2, just for you, I went to the link. First time since Feb, that is, if the link finally resolves; I swear, the wireless internet is so iffy.

Man, it stil hasn't got there. Want to post what you wrote? I can't seem to pull it up.

[n2nsites]

whatever said:

N2, just for you, I went to the link. First time since Feb, that is, if the link finally resolves; I swear, the wireless internet is so iffy.

Man, it stil hasn't got there. Want to post what you wrote? I can't seem to pull it up.

It's really long....

The U.S. federal government spent over $19 billion dollars in 2003 on the War on Drugs, at a rate of about $600 per second. The budget has since been increased by over a billion dollars.

Source: Office of National Drug Control Policy

State and local governments spent at least another 30 billion.

Source: National Center on Addiction and Substance Abuse at Columbia University: "Shoveling Up: The Impact of Substance Abuse on State Budgets," January, 2001.


Quote:
Arrests for drug law violations in 2005 are expected to exceed the 1,678,192 arrests of 2003.

Someone is arrested every 20 seconds.

Source: Uniform Crime Reports, Federal Bureau of Investigation

Here's the deal. Alcohol is worse, IN MY OPINION, than pot. If alcohol is legal, why is marijuana not?

Some facts on Alcohol and Crime:

1. According to the federal Household Survey, there are more than 48 million Americans who use alcohol an average of one or more days each week of the year. This is more than the combined total number of Americans who have ever tried cocaine, crack, and/or heroin (29.7 million), and two and a half times the number of Americans who have used marijuana once in the last year (18.7 million).

Source: Substance Abuse and Mental Health Services Administration, US Department of Health and Human Services, National Household Survey on Drug Abuse: Population Estimates 1998 (Washington DC: US Department of Health and Human Services, 1999), pp. 19, 25, 31, 37, 85, 91, 105.


2. On an average day in 1996, an estimated 5.3 million convicted offenders were under the supervision of criminal justice authorities. Nearly 40% of these offenders, about 2 million, had been using alcohol at the time of the offense for which they were convicted.

Source: Greenfield, Lawrence A., US Department of Justice, Bureau of Justice Statistics, Alcohol and Crime: An Analysis of National Data on the Prevalence of Alcohol Involvement in Crime (Washington, DC: US Department of Justice, April, 1998), p. 20.


3. About 6 in 10 convicted jail inmates said that they had been drinking on a regular basis during the year before the offense for which they were serving time. Nearly 2 out of 3 of these inmates, regardless of whether they drank daily or less often, reported having previously been in a treatment program for an alcohol dependency problem.

Source: Greenfield, Lawrence A., US Department of Justice, Bureau of Justice Statistics, Alcohol and Crime: An Analysis of National Data on the Prevalence of Alcohol Involvement in Crime (Washington, DC: US Department of Justice, April, 1998), p. 27.


4. About a quarter of the women on probation nationwide had been drinking at the time of their offense compared to more than 40% of male probationers (figure 30). For those convicted of public-order crimes, nearly two-thirds of women and three-quarters of men had been drinking at the time of the offense.

Source: Greenfield, Lawrence A., US Department of Justice, Bureau of Justice Statistics, Alcohol and Crime: An Analysis of National Data on the Prevalence of Alcohol Involvement in Crime (Washington, DC: US Department of Justice, April, 1998), p. 24.


5. For more than 4 in 10 convicted murderers being held either in jail or in State prison, alcohol use is reported to have been a factor in the crime. Nearly half of those convicted of assault and sentenced to probation had been drinking when the offense occurred.

Source: Greenfield, Lawrence A., US Department of Justice, Bureau of Justice Statistics, Alcohol and Crime: An Analysis of National Data on the Prevalence of Alcohol Involvement in Crime (Washington, DC: US Department of Justice, April, 1998), p. 21.

The above was quoted verbatim from Drug War Facts
In keeping on original topic, I found this very interesting piece of information:

Quote:
A study by the National Center on Addiction and Substance Abuse at Columbia University confirms what many criminologists have long known: alcohol is associated with more violent crime than any illegal drug, including crack, cocaine, and heroin. Twenty-one percent of violent felons in state prisons committed their crimes while under the influence of alcohol alone. Only 3% were high on crack or powder cocaine alone and only 1% were using heroin alone.

Source: Califano, Joseph, Behind Bars: Substance Abuse and America's Prison Population, Forward by Joseph Califano, The National Center on Addiction and Substance Abuse at Columbia University (1998).


Federal statistics show that a large percentage of criminal offenders were under the influence of alcohol alone when they committed their crimes (36.3%, or a total of 1,919,251 offenders). Federal research also shows for more than 40% of convicted murderers being held in either jail or State prison, alcohol use was a factor in the crime.
Source: Greenfield, Lawrence A., Alcohol and Crime: An Analysis of National Data on the Prevalence of Alcohol Involvement in Crime (Washington, DC: US Department of Justice, April 1998), pp. 20-21.


And even more interesting:
Quote:

1. It is important to note that each of the most violent episodes in this century coincide with the prohibition on alcohol and the escalation of the modern-day war on drugs. In 1933 the homicide rate peaked at 9.7 per 100,000 people, which was the year that alcohol prohibition was finally repealed. In 1980, the homicide rate peaked again at 10 per 100,000.

Source: US Census Data and FBI Uniform Crime Reports.

View the chart here


2. "The data are quite consistent with the view that Prohibition at the state level inhibited alcohol consumption, and an attempt to explain correlated residuals by including omitted variables revealed that enforcement of Prohibitionist legislation had a significant inhibiting effect as well. Moreover, both hypotheses about the effects of alcohol and Prohibition are supported by the analysis. Despite the fact that alcohol consumption is a positive correlate of homicide (as expected), Prohibition and its enforcement increased the homicide rate."

Source: Jensen, Gary F., "Prohibition, Alcohol, and Murder: Untangling Countervailing Mechanisms," Homicide Studies, Vol. 4, No. 1 (Sage Publications: Thousand Oaks, CA, February 2000), p. 31.


3. "Generalizing from the findings on Prohibition, we can hypothesize that decriminalization would increase the use of the previously criminalized drug, but would decrease violence associated with attempts to control illicit markets and as resolutions to disputes between buyers and sellers. Moreover, because the perception of violence associated with the drug market can lead people who are not directly involved to be prepared for violent self-defense, there could be additional reductions in peripheral settings when disputes arise (see Blumstein & Cork, 1997; Sheley & Wright, 1996)."

Source: Jensen, Gary F., "Prohibition, Alcohol, and Murder: Untangling Countervailing Mechanisms," Homicide Studies, Vol. 4, No. 1 (Sage Publications: Thousand Oaks, CA, February 2000), pp. 33-4.

I found these interesting, considering some of the remarks made by my esteemed co-posters:

Quote:
A study in the Journal of the American Medical Association on cannabis and its possible role as a gateway drug found that "While covariates differed between equations, early regular use of tobacco and alcohol emerged as the 2 factors most consistently associated with later illicit drug use and abuse/dependence. While early regular alcohol use did not emerge as a significant independent predictor of alcohol dependence, this finding should be treated with considerable caution, as our study did not provide an optimal strategy for assessing the effects of early alcohol use."

Source: Lynskey, Michael T., PhD, et al., "Escalation of Drug Use in Early-Onset Cannabis Users vs Co-twin Controls," Journal of the American Medical Association, Vol. 289 No. 4, January 22/29, 2003, online at jama.ama-assn.org/issues/v289n4/rfull/joc21156.html, last accessed Jan. 31, 2003.



Also:
Quote:
The World Health Organization released a study in March 1998 that states: "there are good reasons for saying that [the risks from cannabis] would be unlikely to seriously [compare to] the public health risks of alcohol and tobacco even if as many people used cannabis as now drink alcohol or smoke tobacco."

Source: Hall, W., Room, R. & Bondy, S., WHO Project on Health Implications of Cannabis Use: A Comparative Appraisal of the Health and Psychological Consequences of Alcohol, Cannabis, Nicotine and Opiate Use, August 28, 1995, (contained in original version, but deleted from official version) (Geneva, Switzerland: World Health Organization, March 1998).

and:

Quote:
Some claim that cannabis use leads to "adult amotivation." The World Health Organization report addresses the issue and states, "it is doubtful that cannabis use produces a well defined amotivational syndrome." The report also notes that the value of studies which support the "adult amotivation" theory are "limited by their small sample sizes" and lack of representative social/cultural groups.

Source: Hall, W., Room, R. & Bondy, S., WHO Project on Health Implications of Cannabis Use: A Comparative Appraisal of the Health and Psychological Consequences of Alcohol, Cannabis, Nicotine and Opiate Use, August 28, 1995 (Geneva, Switzerland: World Health Organization, March 1998).

Do you get my point? The misinformation generated and spoonfed to the public about Marijuana abuse creates a fear that some experts would disagree with. Anything abused is bad. The hysteria surrounding the attempts to legalize dosages of marijuana for MEDICAL purposes is a prime example of how the misinformation creates a problem rather than solving it. There are countless testimonies from seriously ill patients who get relief from marijuana that they can't from other drugs, and yet they can't get that relief legally because why? Tell me why. Because of FEAR. Nobody can claim they get true "relief" from medical alcohol use and yet.....go to Quik Trip. Anybody can get loaded legally. Tell me why.

Oh. The "stoners" know how to use the quote feature correctly.

Toodles.

The above was a response to the folks who were trying to come up with something to defend their position "Drugs are Bad", in a thread started by Danza about crime and pot use etc. And quite frankly, I don't think they did anything but repeat the mantra over and over, in different words. Well, that and the poster "seemed" to dismiss me, which always puts me off on a tirade and the poster could come up with nothing better to counter Danza with than "Go smoke more weed, stoner". GOD I hate that. I really do.

[DanzaSlap]

Verily, it was a super-impressive showing. You'd have been proud, whatever. Of course, the comical Mr. Mackey-esque CAMod prolly would have just pissed you off, much as it did me.

It's sad that people are so stubbornly ignorant about drugs. Often, in a drug debate, people will derisvely ask, "Well, do you do drugs?" To which I respond, "I have. Have you?" "Never!" So, you're commenting on something that you've never tried? Certainly, we can have opinions on things we haven't done or seen, but when someone comes up saying, "I have direct, first-hand experience with such things," wouldn't you defer to those people?

The anti-drug propaganda in this country is revolting, and the ignorance of people who advocate the War on Drugs is sad. If you don't believe that the gov't or media is powerful enough to misinform the populace, then you've obviously never had a debate about the WoD.

[Kender]

It was a good idea to post it here. After a week, it'll probably be in oblivion over at Stltoday.

[whatever]

Finally got back to this, way to go N2!!

Face it, these political monsters are going to keep people spinning around on terrorism, war, fear and hide in shame and fear

While
"
www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/07/11/AR2005071101282_pf.html
7 Federal Prisons to Get Lethal Electrified Fences

Associated Press
Tuesday, July 12, 2005; A19

Seven high-security federal prisons will be getting lethal electrified fences in a $10 million project intended to reduce the number of perimeter guards needed.

The 12-foot-high "stun-lethal" fences, similar to ones used at some state prisons, can be set to deliver a shock if touched once, and a fatal jolt if touched a second time.

The Federal Bureau of Prisons expects to award contracts for the fences in late fall, spokeswoman Traci Billingsley said. "This new technology will serve as new security and help us to deter potential escapes, allow us to operate more cost-effectively by reducing the guard towers, the staffing at some of our guard towers," she said.

Judy Freyermuth of the Federal Prison Policy Project, a nonprofit prison reform group in suburban Atlanta, predicted the hoped-for savings will never materialize.
"

While we make bigger and better plans for all those dangerous pot smokers...

No, it's hopeless. I think, 5 years or so, they'll let out the pot smokers, and use all those prisons for political enemies. People like me. So, pot? Hardly matters, we have no human rights. Forget entirely the right to feel good. It's not on the political agenda.

Take some pain meds, take some antidepressant meds, take a pill and shut up. Work, make us money, and then die. THAT is the agenda.

I give UP entirely on those that refuse to see it. On those that like having pot illegal. People like a friend of ours, his wife, she said "I think the United States is better for having more prisoners than any other nation in the world; it means we don't execute our criminals"

That is what she said. An educated, intelligent (well, moderately intelligent, better than "dumb normal" intelligence) contemporary woman in our nation. Had no problem jailing pot smokers. Though her father is an alcohol distributor. I GIVE UP!!!

So fucking stupid, all of it, there isn't any point anymore.

TERRORISM PEOPLE, IT'S ALL ABOUT TERRORISM, SO BE AFRAID!!!

'cause that's what we do best. There's just no fucking point anymore. Liberty? Freedom? Oh shut the fuck up. You people don't have a clue what it means to be free, America.